About To Break
My Interview with the great Dr. Terri Levine
Terri Levine: Okay, great.
Justin Donne: We are recording now. This is Justin. I am honored to have Dr. Terri Levine, my good friend, mentor, coach. Some people call her a guru, but she doesn’t necessarily love that term because she is just like us, except she has a certain brilliance, background, degrees and acumen that she can transfer to us through her entrepreneur movement that she started, which is how I really met and fell in love with Terri in that business can be cutthroat, full of sharks, or we can do business from the heart and still prosper because they’re not mutually exclusive.
Justin Donne: But that’s not what we’re here to talk about today because today, Terri has … Well, not today, but she’s written a book. The book is one of the most transformative and terrific books I think have ever been written. Here’s the reason why for that little hyperbole. A lot of books are written based on theories or based on research or based on a lot of great information and background, and that’s good. Certainly, all of that forms the backstory to Terri’s new book.
Justin Donne: However, when something is based on lived firsthand experience that is reinforced by research and solid science and thinking and brilliance behind it, it takes it to a whole other level. Terri has written a book called About to Break, which is autobiographical but isn’t simply talking about how great she is and sharing her story and pouring her heart and soul out. It is also helpful because it has processes in it that transform one’s relationship with a concept we can all use called forgiveness, forgiveness of yourself, of others, in all its dimensions, in business, in life, with pets and family, in all areas and spheres of life.
Justin Donne: What a concept. I know I could use more of it. I know I always remind myself to forgive others because I will need forgiveness, because nobody’s perfect and all of those other great things. Terri, thank you so much for coming today so we can focus on this marvelous book that you have written and that, literally, I don’t know a human on this planet that doesn’t need forgiveness and so doesn’t need this book in their hands, in their minds, so that they can practice it and benefit from it. Welcome.
Terri Levine: Wow, thank you so much. This is my 44th book, and all I can say is this is my most important work in the 45 years that I’ve been doing work on this planet.
Justin Donne: Yeah, absolutely. I would agree with that because I’ve read not all 44 books. I apologize.
Terri Levine: You don’t need to apologize.
Justin Donne: I’ve read two.
Terri Levine: I’m glad to hear that.
Justin Donne: Honestly. I’ve loved both of them. Turbocharge your Businesses is the other one I’ve read, and I highly recommend that as you know. I’ve recommended it several times. But let’s talk about you now, first of all, your backstory, because I want you to tell us, as briefly or as lengthily as you want, how’d you get to this point? What am I asking you? Why did you decide to write this book at this point in your journey?
Terri Levine: It’s a really, really big question. About five years ago, I literally felt like I was about to break mentally, physically, emotionally. I’m a very normally positive, happy person. I got to the point where literally I was making a choice. Did I still want to be on the planet? Made the choice, obviously, to be here, and I’m really glad that I’ve continued my journey.
Terri Levine: I started to write for myself what was occurring. I started to use some forgiveness processes. The first process is called radical forgiveness by the late Collin Tipping. I had been using radical forgiveness with clients and with myself for years and years and years. I kept going through the process and going through the process, and I just wasn’t complete. I still wouldn’t really forgive somebody. I would think I forgave them because I do the worksheet, and then I’d have an encounter with them, and I’d have all the emotions still there. I’m like, “I didn’t really forgive them. Better do it again.”
Terri Levine: Then, I said, “No, there’s got to be other things.” I kept experimenting. What if I add this? What if I do this? Then, one day, I realized that I really felt forgiveness. The day was when I walked into a courtroom with someone who was suing me for saying she owned my company, even though my company existed six years before anybody ever heard of this woman. We’d been in court, she’d been dragging me through court for 15 years, cost me over $300,000, lot of time and energy. Prior to this, whenever I saw her, even though I did the forgiveness worksheet, I did not feel forgiveness.
Terri Levine: I walked into the courtroom this time, and I smiled at her. I realized that in my heart, I actually felt love. I thought, “She’s doing what she’s doing for some reason. We’re in this dance for some reason. I actually just love her.” I sat in the courtroom just literally sending her love and light. She was a little freaked out by me. If she would have allowed me, I would have hugged her. That’s how I felt.
Terri Levine: That’s when I knew I’d let go, and I was forgiving. I wrote down all the processes, and I kept doing them with other experiences in my life. Then, I happened to share with a whole group client family members one day that I figured this process out. They asked me to teach it.
Terri Levine: I taught a hundred of them. Within about three weeks, they were emailing me, calling me, texting me. “I’m making more money. I feel more free. I’m happier. I have a better relationship.” It was going on and on. They said, “You have to write this in a book.”
Terri Levine: I wrote this book over three years. Most of my books I write between six months and a year because, Justin, every time I wrote a chapter, I’d say, “No one could read that. That’s too transparent about me.” I would delete the entire chapter. This kept going on. Finally, one day, I said, “I’m not sharing this book publicly. This for me?”
Terri Levine: I mentioned something to my publisher, and he said, “Can I just read it? We won’t publish it. I’ll just read it.” After he read it, he called me, and he said, “I’m still crying because I released something so large in my life. After 27 years in therapy, I couldn’t. Terri, you have to release this.”
Terri Levine: That’s when I decided if I just forgot about my ego and what anybody thinks of me and put it out there as a way to serve other people through my story, they’ll relate on some level to something in the book, emotional, physical, sexual abuse, whatever. They will relate, and then they’ll take the process and use it. That’s why I decided to let the book out there.
Justin Donne: That is magical and marvelous. I really love that. I can certainly relate as you’re talking. In full transparency, I kind of feel like I’m about to break myself recently, so this is good timing. Same thing. I have done those radical forgiveness worksheets before, and they work, but not 100%, maybe not even 70%. I’ve also done many, many other things. Great timing on the book for me, personally, but I also know for this planet.
Justin Donne: Before we move on to my next question … I only have eight by the way, so it’s not a nine hour interview, but I wanted to share with you that I believe that we now have a choice because your book is out there and recommends that way of going about things where it’s involving forgiveness, where it involves you see someone that there was a situation with, and you felt that way towards her. Now, that, to me, feels better, or I think will feel better, than somebody else who’s written a book, which I’ve read, who is currently serving as president of the United States, that does not -
Terri Levine: I knew you were going there. Yes.
Justin Donne: That does not recommend forgiveness but rather recommends, in black and white in his book, which is a good book called Think big in Business and in Life. But he recommends revenge. If someone hurts you, forgiveness isn’t part of his process but getting back at them and revenge and all these.
Justin Donne: Do you know what? When I read that, I did smile and chuckle. There was a bit of, “Oh, that woman deserved that,” because she was really mean to him and all that. He had no forgiveness. He just went after her. There’s a bit of that “go after them” type, but does that feel better than releasing it and feeling love towards that person versus animosity?
Justin Donne: I don’t think we had too much of a choice in the past, and now, we really do have a choice of which process and path we want to choose to follow. I think that’s really powerful.
Justin Donne: Let’s move on to the next question. Now that we know how we got here, I want to ask you what it is that you want to accomplish with this book. What do you desire to accomplish by releasing this book?
Terri Levine: This is interesting because it ties in with what you just talked about. I feel that right now, there is so much lack of love in the world. There is “go after people, go get them, don’t let people get away with that.” I just don’t come from that. I think what the world needs today, more than ever, is love, compassion and healing.
Terri Levine: Johns Hopkins University and the Mayo Clinic both did massive studies on people who hold grudges, anger, resentment, “I’m going to get you” kind of things. Those people are physically, typically, unwell. Their relationships fall apart, divorce after divorce. Not good relationships with their kids, their family, their parents. People don’t like them. I could go on and on. Their income, even if they make money, tends to constantly disappear.
Terri Levine: I have found that when I’ve shared this with a hundred people, initially, who went through the process, all of them had massive transformation. This was not like, “Here’s some information.” It was transformation. Things changed. I believe that the change happens from within us because when I’m walking around in forgiveness, no matter what happens, and all kinds of stuff is going to happen in life and in business, I constantly feel good. Constantly.
Terri Levine: I don’t care what somebody does to me, says to me, whatever, crashes me online, bashes me on … Whatever. When you’re a presence, you’re going to get that. I’m like, “Okay, whatever.” I really just think if we come from understanding, we are all interconnected in some way, shape and form. We are all one in some way, shape and form. Believe me, I am not a perfect human being. I’m doing the best that I can in the moment. I’m sure I’ve done and said things that weren’t the best. If other people forgive me, that’s awesome. If not, that’s their decision. I choose forgiveness, I choose peace, love and bliss. I will tell you it changed my life experience. Period.
Justin Donne: Beautiful. You’re not poor. You prosper, you make money. You are, if I may share, somebody who can be considered wealthy. We’re not talking about not being a go-getter. We’re not talking about not going after your dreams or somehow not being an achiever and someone who does stuff. We’re just saying that that aggressive sort of mentality isn’t necessary in order to become wealthy. That’s my sort of -
Terri Levine: It’s a great -
Justin Donne: Thinking on that journey, because otherwise, I don’t know how much hope I got because I try. I wish I could be more aggressive in and run with those people. I’ve tried before. It’s just not me. If you got to be that way, if you’ve got to be … If people love Gary V., I love Gary V. I don’t know him, I don’t use his stuff because it’s too aggressive for me.
Justin Donne: If that’s how you have to be in order to make money and get ahead in the world, then I’m a hopeless cause. I can’t do it. I don’t want to do it. It’s alien to me. How can I sleep at night? I’ve got to be me.
Justin Donne: I think that what you show and demonstrate by your actions and by your being is that you can be you. You can come from the heart. You can still prosper in business. What kind of things are you dealing with right now externally? What are you dealing with?
Terri Levine: The thing that I shared more than anything is that I have a neurological disease. It’s called reflex sympathetic dystrophy. If you don’t know about it, it is the most painful disease according to the McGill pain scale on the planet. RSD is up here, a brain tumor is down here, amputation. There’s no comparison. I’m dealing with that, I’ve been dealing with it for 15 years.
Terri Levine: I was about to break because of it. Literally. I thought I could not live. I could not go on. I’ve forgiven myself for having RSD and RSD for having me. I realize we’re just in some magical dance, and we’re supposed to be united and together. I live, and I live happily, and I live well. Even though I, quote, have a disease, it doesn’t interfere with me or my life anymore. Prior to this, it was breaking me.
Justin Donne: Wow. Do you view this as something external, or do you view that as an internal struggle?
Terri Levine: That’s a very good question. I used to view it as internal. This is inside me. Then, I realized it was also an external thing for me because I always felt like even though you couldn’t physically see the disease, I felt like externally, it was attacking me. It felt very external to me. People have asked me, “Wasn’t that an internal thing?” While I have a disease internally, my belief was somebody was constantly attacking me, and the somebody was RSD. Does that make sense?
Justin Donne: Yes, it does. Yes, it does. We talked about that interesting quote that I shared from Vince McMahon, the chairman of WWE. I’m a fan. I think that that is something we’ll talk about at another time, but it relates, in my opinion, to that.
Justin Donne: I think that RSD, for you, is a proverbial wall of fire, both in the way it feels and in the analogy of I cannot … Well, I can believe, but it’s sometimes hard to believe someone who has turned and transformed that into her greatest strength, really.
Justin Donne: The book is called About to Break. You said you were about to break. What was it? What was the problem that was about to break you?
Terri Levine: It was a combination of things. First, it was the RSD and feeling like, “I can’t live another minute with this. It’s too painful. It’s too much for me.” Second, I never thought I would do something like this in my entire life. I felt, quote, wronged by a friend, and I went to social media with that. Used the person’s name, called the person out, even mentioned to him just to some clients. I did it publicly. I did it on Facebook. I would never think I would do that.
Terri Levine: I felt so out of control. After I did it, I had shame and remorse and guilt and thought, “Oh, now I’ve done this publicly. Now everyone knows what a horrible person I am. I shouldn’t even be alive. I’m that horrible.” The combination of those two things literally had me unable to get up, get out of bed and feeling like, “I can’t go on anymore. I’m about to break.”
Justin Donne: Wow. Certainly sounds like that other book we mentioned earlier of people want to choose that path and want to feel that way, good luck. Now that we’re here, what experience, what new opportunity, epiphany … Now that you’ve transcended that, and we’re on the other side of this problem, of this breakage point, you didn’t break, thank goodness, and you chose to release the book instead and tell us your journey, but what was that moment? If I may ask, what is that epiphany moment of yours? If you can share it with us. I know it’s in the book, and people need to read the entire book to completely understand it, but what is that key?
Terri Levine: For me, the key was really looking at choice. Here I am, here’s my choice. I either just disappear from the planet because I’m too horrific to go on, whether it’s horrific internally or externally or how I believe I was perceived, or I learned how to forgive myself. Not even to first go to RSD and say, “I love you.” Not even to go to the other person and say, “Will you forgive me?” Because whether they said yes or no, I needed to forgive me.
Terri Levine: That’s when it actually dawned on me. Forgiveness is an inside job, whether I have somebody else say, “I forgive you.” Let’s say I wronged you in some way. I say, “Justin, I’m really sorry.” You go, “I don’t really care. I’m never going to talk to you again.” That’s not anything to do with me. I have to forgive. I had to open my heart and forgive.
Terri Levine: I literally began to embrace RSD. I woke up and went, “RSD is this gift. It could have been given to anyone on the planet. No, it was given to me. Why me? Oh, I have a a voice. I reach people all over the world on stages. I speak, I have money, I could start a foundation, I could help kids.” All of a sudden, it became, “This is not about me. This is about helping and RSD showing me that I have a role in this and accepting the dance.”
Terri Levine: Even with the other person who I went on Facebook and did all this stuff, I went to the person and asked for forgiveness, not knowing if I would get it or not. Yes, I got forgiveness, which was lovely. I realize now that even if I didn’t, even if the person said, “F you,” and hung up on me, I already forgave me. That’s the biggest lesson I can give you. Forgiveness is in your heart.
Justin Donne: That’s beautiful. Working on that one myself.
Terri Levine: All the time. We all are.
Justin Donne: We all are. Absolutely. What’s the plan? What is the plan to achieve this forgiveness? I know that, originally, there were other processes from other people and all that. I’m not asking you to divulge the book because people do need to make a purchase. They need to buy the book, invest in it. It’s not expensive. We all need to own a copy. Send them to all your friends. I think somebody needs to send the president a gift for Christmas, which is a copy of this book.
Terri Levine: Good idea.
Justin Donne: Stick it under his tree. One for the wife, and one for the children, and one for everybody. But really, I think he would like the book. Honestly. I really do think he would like it. But anyway, that’s another point. That’s politics, and I’m not into politics. That’s all. I’m involved with it, but I don’t like it. What’s the plan? What is the plan that comes out of this book?
Terri Levine: There are numerous steps. I won’t go through everything. I will just say that you have to go back in time. Look at every decade you’ve been on the planet, and for yourself, surface up. What’s still there? What’s a remnant? When I started to write the book, I said, “Well, where do I begin? I’m going to tell some autobiography. I don’t know. Who should I forgive? What should I forgive?” I talk about in the first chapter that, “Wow, I had something to forgive that happened when I was a very little girl where I, literally, had a group of people try to kill me.” That’s pretty significant.
Terri Levine: Yet, if you had asked me right before I wrote the book, “What would you start with?,” I’d be like, “Oh, I don’t know. Maybe something that happened with my parents or my sister.” I didn’t even recall this until I took it decade by decade on paper and said, “What would happen in each decade?”
Terri Levine: When this came up, I realized, “Oh, boy.” This was still in me. It was still here. The best way that I could release it was to go through the processes in About to Break. The first step to forgiveness is look at decades to decade. What actually do you still not forgive yourself or others for? All I can tell you is when you go through those … Just that process by itself. I have people who just do that before they do the other processes and go, “I can’t believe how much I needed to let go of and how much I released without taking step two.”
Justin Donne: That’s fantastic. Yes. Obviously, for the full guidance through the process and for, of course, the stories, the background, the energy of the author, people really do need to get all of that before they embark on this journey. But that in and by itself could make a big difference for people. I really wanted to ask you, what is the plan for the book?
Terri Levine: Okay, great. The plan for the book is different than any of my other books. I want people to get copies of this book and do what you said, gift it to people that they want to make amends with. The book is small. It’s not the average sized book. I made it a gift book size. I want you to, first of all, get the book for yourself and go through the processes, and then start thinking, “Who can I give this book to? Who do I want to say ‘I’m sorry’ to? Who do I want to make amends with, and who can benefit?”
Terri Levine: I have never, with any of my books, had a desire to literally get this … When I say in everyone’s hands, I mean everyone’s. I think there is healing that needs to be done, and this book is healing. My plan is to get this book in as many people’s hands as physically, mentally and emotionally possible. Period.
Justin Donne: And create a ripple effect in our world. What kind of sort of conflicts or barriers have you come in along the way so far? Terri, we’ve got two more questions at the end of it that will wrap it up really quickly. We’re nearing the end of our interview. What’s come up along the way that’s not helped, let’s just say? Barriers, conflicts. What kind of things have gotten in the way so far?
Terri Levine: Life is always interesting, right? The book was pre-release, which means no one gets a copy. Can’t tell you how this happened because Amazon can’t tell us how it happened. People who ordered the book, all of a sudden we’re getting emails saying you’re getting the book. Even though the pre-released on Amazon still, to this day, says the book is not published. All of a sudden, people were showing me pictures holding the book and doing videos holding the book. I’m like, “How do you get the book?”
Terri Levine: Amazon has some glitch. They’re looking into it. By the time they look into it, it doesn’t really matter. That’s one. The second is, although these people are verified purchasers, they want to do Amazon reviews. Amazon will say to them, “We can’t review. The book isn’t published.” But they’re holding the book. It’s just very interesting.
Terri Levine: My publisher and I were talking. He’s like, “I’ve never seen this with any book.” I said, “Me either.” Amazon says, “We don’t even know how this is happening.” I said,, “You know what? This is about forgiveness, right? Forgive the process and understand that maybe there’s some really beneficial reason people have the books early and just breathe into it and let it go. Don’t fight against it.” That’s a big lesson.
Justin Donne: It is a big lesson. It’s practicing what you preach, certainly. Let’s wrap this up by talking about the two most important things. What is the end result that you achieved with this book, obviously, and this process in your own life? What is the end result, achievement?
Terri Levine: Number one, I’m still here. Number two, I have a full and amazing life with or without RSD. Doesn’t matter. I’m still 100%. I have gone back and repaired relationships that were so dear to me. My niece, the stories in the book. The book is dedicated to her. I was like her mom, and we are back to a loving relationship.
Terri Levine: I have been closer to my husband than ever before. I’ve been with him for over 40 years, and we are closer than ever. I have had greater health, greater wealth. I have attracted, literally, the most brilliant clients on the planet. Literally. They just find me. Every aspect of my life has changed.
Justin Donne: That’s perfect. The most important question. You mentioned the T word before. Transformation. What’s all that mean? Those are great results, but what does that mean to you? With risk of sounding like a shrink, how do you feel about that?
Terri Levine: I have to explain this in my own words. I’ve read lots of books and gone to lots of courses and paid lots and lots and lots of money for transformation. Typically, I would come home and, in the moment, would think it’s amazing. Then, four or five days later, I’d be back into the same old patterns like, “Ugh, that didn’t work either. What’s next?”
Terri Levine: This process, for me, has been the end all be all. I don’t have to seek anything else anymore. The 100 people that I took through it, they tell me that they’re not seeking anything else. To me, that’s real transformation. When the caterpillar turns into a butterfly, it doesn’t go back. This is true transformation
Justin Donne: It’s beautiful, and you are, if I may make a comment, an evaluative comment, having known you now for a couple of years, you have never looked better. You’ve never sounded better. You’ve never radiated better. I can feel it through your posts, through your messages and through my interaction with you. I so can’t wait to see you face to face and give you a big hug.
Justin Donne: Terri Levine, the author of About to Break. Get your copy. Get a copy, and send it to our leaders. People listen from the United States. I have people who listen from Australia, the United Kingdom and other countries. Get a copy. It’s the holidays. They need Christmas presents, too. Nothing is more thoughtful than a book about forgiveness. Certainly, politicians and leaders need a ton of forgiveness going both ways.
Justin Donne: Thank you so much for coming, for talking to me and for gracing us with your presence and gifting us with this magnificent creation, this book About to Break, Terri Levine. Thank you so much, Terri. My love to you.
Terri Levine: Justin, I love you. Same here.
Justin Donne: Thank you. Have a beautiful week.
Terri Levine: You too.
Justin Donne: Thanks.
